Handbook Talk:AMD64/Installation/Tools

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A comment [[User:Larry|Larry]] 13:52, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
: A reply [[User:Sally|Sally]] 15:56, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
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warning about not using logrotate

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This discussion is done.

Should be mensioned that if app-admin/sysklogd OR app-admin/syslog-ng is used that logs won't be cleared automatically like on meta-log by default.

Current warning is not efficient enough.

Kreyren (talk) 21:30, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

It already says this. --Grknight (talk) 18:42, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

systemd's journal

Talk status

This discussion is done as of 2022-11-27.

Link on journal of systemd should be added for the user to know how to use it.

Kreyren (talk) 21:30, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

A note was added at some point to mention systemd's journald service. Explaining how to use journalctl goes beyond the scope of the Handbook. --Maffblaster (talk) 11:35, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Installing system tools

Talk status

This discussion is done as of April 20th, 2017.

I'd recommend having a highlight box around the statement which reads "If sysklogd or syslog-ng are going to be used.." to make it stand out more with regard to the need for logrotate. Not only this, but I'd also mention that logrotate is rather redundant without a cron daemon, and I personally have fallen into the trap of having some large log files stall a working system because something spammed the system-log to death [literally!] !

-- veremit (talk) 02:08, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Ok, I used the Tip template for it, and linked to logrotate immediately as that page also mentions the use of cron. --SwifT (talk) 16:32, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

USE flag conflict

Talk status

This discussion is done as of August 22nd, 2018.

emerge --ask net-wireless/iw net-wireless/wpa_supplicant complains

  !!! The ebuild selected to satisfy "sys-apps/dbus" has unmet requirements.
  - sys-apps/dbus-1.10.24::gentoo USE="X test -debug -doc -elogind (-selinux) - static-libs -systemd -user-session" ABI_X86="(64) - 32 (-X32)"
     The following REQUIERED_USE flag constraints are unsatisfied:
        test? ( debug )
     The above constraints are a subset of the following complete expressions:
        at-most-one-of ( elogind systemd ) test? ( debug )
  (dependency required by "net-wireless/wpa_supplicant-2.6-r6::gentoo[dbus]" [ebuild])
  (dependency required by "net-wireless/wpa_supplicant" [argument])

-- necktwi (talk) 17:24, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

This mean if you have <test> use flag are enabled then you should also enable <debug> use flag. <test> use flag is not required for standard gentoo usage. --Cronolio (talk) 18:49, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

test is set as a Portage feature. So remove test as a value from FEATURES in make.conf. This is not an issue with our documentation. This is a support question. Please refer to #gentoo (webchat) or the mailing list for support. --Maffblaster (talk) 20:43, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Isn't it productive to update the documentation with the suggestion on USE option that avoids this error so that new users don't have to get sidetracked from the installation in search of the solution? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Necktwi (talk • contribs) 22:13, August 22, 2018‎

Handbook:AMD64/Working/USE#Satisfying_REQUIRED_USE_conditions --Cronolio (talk) 11:22, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

By having FEATURES set at all, the user already has sidetracked from the installation process. This is never a issue for anyone following the Handbook to install Gentoo... test is not set in FEATURES by default, nor is it recommended anywhere in the installation section of the Handbook. FEATURES can be reviewed by reading man make.conf on a user's local PC and if it is unclear then support can be obtained via the proper channels or by reading other Portage related documentation here on the wiki (see Portage, /etc/portage/make.conf, Handbook:AMD64/Full/Working#Portage_features, etc.).

You can review the whole installation section right here and see that Portage's FEATURES variable is not mentioned. Make sense? --Maffblaster (talk) 18:37, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Setting the developer preset has given the error. I have reset to Desktop/gnome. But I want to debug drm kernel modules. Should I need developer preset?

trivial typo

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This discussion is done.

"choose this package based on it's logging potential": it's should be its. Niku (talk) 06:19, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

complete, thanks for noticing. --Grknight (talk) 13:38, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Redundant networking tools section

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This discussion needs help as of March 11, 2019.
Tip: To get this fixed sooner, use {{Proposal}}.

I suggest replacing/merging Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Tools#Networking_tools with a reminder to download and prepare the networking tools in Handbook:AMD64/Full/Networking and/or Network_management prior to rebooting. IMO, it is just confusing to have a triplicate mini-section on networking. --Rad (talk) 20:16, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Mention thermald

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Tip: To get this fixed sooner, use {{Proposal}}.

thermald makes a substantial difference to performance on modern Intel CPUs and prevents premature throttling.

We should recommend that users install & enable it for openrc/systemd as appropriate.

Note that it's covered at Power_management/Guide#powercap_sysfs_driver but it's rather hidden away. --Sam (talk) 10:20, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Proposal: Link to wiki pages alongside package names, where available

Talk status

This discussion is done as of 2024-10-20.

Proposed changes - Please make edits here until a final revision is agreed upon.

Users might find it helpful if we link to the relevant wiki page, where available, alongside package names, e.g. something like:

sysklogd (app-admin/sysklogd) - Offers the traditional set of system logging daemons.

Added in Special:Diff/1316829/1316831, thanks!

--csfore (talk) 16:32, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

DHCP client installation

Talk status

This discussion is done as of 2024-10-20.

Better rephrase:

Most users will need a DHCP client to connect to their network. If none was installed, then the system might not be able to get on the network thus making it impossible to download a DHCP client afterwards.

... to something like:

Most users will need a DHCP client to connect to their network. If none was installed, then the system might not be able to get on the network thus making it impossible to download a DHCP client afterwards without a static IP configuration.

--Duxsco (talk) 18:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Done in Special:Diff/1314107/1316829, thanks!

--csfore (talk) 16:18, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Add a NetworkManager in section Networking tools

Talk status

This discussion:

provides a proposal that can be merged as is, but as of 2024-10-29,
that proposal has not remained unchanged and uncontested for 30 days.

A large number of desktop environments use NetworkManager as the network tool, and nmtui and nmcli are also available on the command line. I don't think we should ignore this.

Df1050 (talk) 09:09, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, NetworkManager should probably be the default suggestion for the Handbook arches that support it (everything but HPPA and MIPS currently) simply because of how widespread it is. An argument might also be made for Systemd-networkd too for systemd users.

I wrote up this initial draft:

Proposed changes to section Networking tools - Please make edits here until a final revision is agreed upon.

If networking was previously configured in the Configuring the system step and network setup is complete, then this 'networking tools' section can be safely skipped. In this case, proceed with the section on Configuring a bootloader.

Installing a DHCP client

Important
Most users will need a DHCP client to connect to their network. If none were installed, then the system might not be able to get on the network thus making it impossible to download a DHCP client afterwards without statically configuring an IP address.

A DHCP client obtains automatically an IP address for one or more network interface(s). The default recommendation is NetworkManager:

root #emerge --ask net-misc/networkmanager

Which can subsequently be added to the default runlevel for OpenRC with:

root #rc-update add NetworkManager default

For systemd, enable the service with:

root #systemctl enable NetworkManager

Warning
Ensure all other DHCP daemons are removed from the default runlevel to ensure different DHCP software does not interfere with each other.

Please give feedback, thank you!

--csfore (talk) 01:52, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

I think you seem to have forgotten the systemd user and you may need to tell them to use "systemctl enable NetworkManager" to activate NetworkManager.

Other than that, I think it's a good update. I'm ready to translate for this. :-D

Df1050 (talk) 02:19, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Fixed!

--csfore (talk) 14:39, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I feel like the optional PPPoE client and wireless networking tools steps can also be safely removed from the whole networking tools section too, as NetworkManager already covers both types of connections, too.

--MymeType (talk) 17:15, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

These steps are written for desktop stages only as on a "normal" stage3 you will get the folowing:

root #emerge -va networkmanager

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
Dependency resolution took 23.16 s (backtrack: 0/20).

[ebuild  N     ] acct-group/plugdev-0-r3::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-wireless/wireless-regdb-20240508::gentoo  28 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-dialup/ppp-scripts-0::gentoo  2 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] acct-group/messagebus-0-r3::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/lzo-2.10:2::gentoo  USE="-examples (-split-usr) -static-libs" 587 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] media-fonts/liberation-fonts-2.1.5::gentoo  USE="-X -fontforge" 2330 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] acct-user/messagebus-0-r3::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] virtual/ttf-fonts-1-r2::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/gobject-introspection-common-1.80.1::gentoo  1016 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] media-libs/libpng-1.6.44:0/16::gentoo  USE="-apng -static-libs -test" 1022 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-3.0-r5:3.0::gentoo  43 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-text/docbook-dsssl-stylesheets-1.79-r4::gentoo  272 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-eselect/eselect-fontconfig-20220403::gentoo  2 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-util/itstool-2.0.7-r2::gentoo  PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_12 -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 103 KiB
[ebuild  NS    ] app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.3-r2:4.3::gentoo [4.1.2-r7:4.1.2::gentoo, 4.2-r3:4.2::gentoo, 4.5-r2:4.5::gentoo] 82 KiB
[ebuild  NS    ] app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.4-r3:4.4::gentoo [4.1.2-r7:4.1.2::gentoo, 4.2-r3:4.2::gentoo, 4.5-r2:4.5::gentoo] 94 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/pygments-2.19.1::gentoo  USE="-test" PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_12 (-pypy3) -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 4853 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/nspr-4.36::gentoo  USE="-debug" 1012 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] media-libs/freetype-2.13.3:2::gentoo  USE="adobe-cff bzip2 cleartype-hinting png -X -brotli -debug -doc -fontforge -harfbuzz -static-libs -svg -utils" 2557 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/libpcre-8.45-r3:3::gentoo  USE="bzip2 cxx jit readline (unicode) zlib -libedit -pcre16 -pcre32 -static-libs -valgrind" 1542 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/nss-3.101.2::gentoo  USE="utils -cacert -test" 74671 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] sys-libs/slang-2.3.3-r1::gentoo  USE="pcre readline zlib -cjk -png -static-libs" 1608 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/newt-0.52.24-r1::gentoo  USE="nls -gpm -tcl" PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_12 -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 126 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/olefile-0.47::gentoo  USE="-doc -test" PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_12 (-pypy3) -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 100 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/libnl-3.10.0:3::gentoo  USE="debug -python -test -utils" PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_12 -python3_10 -python3_11" 1091 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-text/xmlto-0.0.28-r11::gentoo  USE="(-latex) -text" 125 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] virtual/libudev-251-r2:0/1::gentoo  USE="-systemd" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-dialup/ppp-2.5.2:0/2.5.2::gentoo  USE="pam -activefilter -atm (-selinux) -systemd" 951 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] sys-apps/dbus-1.15.8::gentoo  USE="-X -debug -doc -elogind (-selinux) -static-libs -systemd -test -valgrind" 1123 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-misc/mobile-broadband-provider-info-20240407::gentoo  USE="-test" 44 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] media-libs/libjpeg-turbo-3.0.3-r1:0/0.2::gentoo  USE="-java -static-libs" CPU_FLAGS_ARM="-neon" 2781 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] media-libs/fontconfig-2.15.0-r1:1.0::gentoo  USE="nls -doc -test" 1414 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-libs/pixman-0.44.2::gentoo  USE="(-loongson2f) -static-libs -test" CPU_FLAGS_ARM="(-neon)" 635 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-base/xorg-proto-2024.1::gentoo  USE="-test" 743 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-wireless/wpa_supplicant-2.10-r5::gentoo  USE="dbus fils hs2-0 mbo mesh readline -ap -broadcom-sta -eap-sim -eapol-test -fasteap -macsec -p2p -privsep (-ps3) -qt5 (-selinux) -smartcard -tdls -tkip -uncommon-eap-types -wep (-wimax) -wps" 3430 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/pillow-11.1.0::gentoo  USE="jpeg zlib -debug -examples -imagequant -jpeg2k -lcms -test -tiff -tk -truetype -webp -xcb" PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_12 (-pypy3) -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 45718 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/docutils-0.21.2::gentoo  PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_12 (-pypy3) -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 2153 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-util/glib-utils-2.80.5::gentoo  PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_12 -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 5409 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-util/gdbus-codegen-2.80.5::gentoo  PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_12 -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/glib-2.80.5-r1:2::gentoo  USE="elf introspection mime xattr -dbus -debug -doc (-selinux) -static-libs (-sysprof) -systemtap -test -utils" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-2.4-r1::gentoo  USE="-test" 6931 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-util/desktop-file-utils-0.28::gentoo  80 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/libgudev-238-r2::gentoo  USE="-introspection -test" 30 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-libs/libmbim-1.28.4-r1::gentoo  USE="-gtk-doc -introspection" 209 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-libs/cairo-1.18.2-r1::gentoo  USE="glib -X (-aqua) (-debug) -gtk-doc -test" 41901 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-util/gtk-doc-1.33.2-r1::gentoo  USE="-emacs -test" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_12 -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 496 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.80.1-r3::gentoo  USE="-doctool -gtk-doc -test" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_12 -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-libs/libndp-1.9-r1::gentoo  367 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/pycairo-1.27.0::gentoo  USE="-debug -doc -examples -test" PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_12 (-pypy3) -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 646 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-libs/libqrtr-glib-1.2.2::gentoo  USE="-gtk-doc" 26 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-python/pygobject-3.50.0:3::gentoo  USE="cairo -debug -test" PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_12 (-pypy3) -python3_10 -python3_11 -python3_13" 909 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-libs/libqmi-1.32.4-r1:0/5.9::gentoo  USE="mbim qrtr -gtk-doc -introspection" 3624 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-misc/modemmanager-1.20.6:0/1::gentoo  USE="introspection mbim qmi qrtr udev -elogind -gtk-doc -policykit (-selinux) -systemd -test -vala" 1433 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-misc/networkmanager-1.48.10-r1::gentoo  USE="concheck gtk-doc introspection modemmanager nss ppp tools wext wifi -audit -bluetooth -connection-sharing -debug -dhclient -dhcpcd -elogind -gnutls -iptables -iwd -libedit -nftables -ofono -ovs -policykit -psl -resolvconf (-selinux) -syslog -systemd -teamd -test -vala" 5943 KiB

Total: 54 packages (52 new, 2 in new slots), Size of downloads: 220243 KiB

The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
 (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by net-misc/networkmanager-1.48.10-r1::gentoo[wifi,-iwd]
# required by networkmanager (argument)
>=net-wireless/wpa_supplicant-2.10-r5 dbus

The other issue I have is why are we doing this? I like NetworkManager, however I'm very warier of pushing changes just because I like them and so far I'm not convinced this suggestion is much more than that. Can you add some more reasons other than DE's use NetworkManager please? Remember not everyone uses a DE.

To be clear, I'm not against the idea and have put in a lot of the groundwork to begin migrating the installcds to use NetworkManager as shown in https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/net-misc/networkmanager?id=0567f015b90ae8855e3c04021981bfee48366a0c and https://github.com/gentoo/releng/pull/27 however, when it comes to the handbook we need to make sure we are doing what is best for user choice and not just because it's our favourite tool.

Immolo (talk) 21:02, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

I've given this so more thought and after discussing with User:csfore on IRC, I have made a draft edit in my user page at User:Immolo/sandbox/Networking#Installing_a_DHCP_client.

Improvements are welcome to the edit but please explain in the commit messages as to why you think they should be added.

Immolo (talk) 05:51, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Minor Typo: Optional: Cron daemon > OpenRC > 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence

Talk status

This discussion is still ongoing as of 2025-03-12.

Internals could be daily ...

should probably read

Intervals could be daily ...

TomVierjan (talk) 20:53, 12 March 2025 (UTC)